Our Wednesday Discussion Group here in Ajijic, MX
As I’ve shared before, I am (almost) always up for a new adventure. I like exploring and my curiosity about people and places guides me forward. But something I consider nearly as important to me is getting together with other people and talking about subjects that matter. Whether they are friends or just acquaintances, the opportunity to get beyond the superficial and connecting with my mind and heart is intoxicating. Surprisingly, this last week here in Mexico, Thom and I participated in three different discussion groups that left me feeling as full and satisfied as a gourmet five-course meal. That got me wondering if others feel the same way I do and if it is so gratifying, why isn’t it more common?
To begin with we were invited to our first conversation by a man we met just days before. The man, who I’ll call Rick, explained that he was leading a group in Authentic Relating. Neither of us had heard of the organization, but based upon his explanation it sounded like it could be interesting. Thom and I have encountered dozens (hundreds?) of different processes through the yeas and unless it is an immediate “no” for either of us we normally say “why not” and try it at least once.
Open Circle at The Lake Chapala Society
According to Rick, Authentic Relating is a practice that allows people to get together and connect with others in deep and meaningful way. The process is generated by exercises or games led by a facilitator. On the evening we attended Rick explained the “game” we were going to play was called “The Hotseat.” During the hour and half, each person would take the hot seat and everyone else is encouraged to ask that person anything they wanted. You don’t have to ask anything if you don’t want, but you also don’t have to answer anything you don’t want to even if asked. In fact, you can lie if you want to. Obviously if the intention is to get to know each other and connect, honesty is probably the best course of action.
The number of people present determines the length of time each person is in the hot seat. And the facilitator also monitors the time spent on each question giving everyone a chance to participate if they choose. In our group there were nine plus the facilitator himself which gave us each six minutes. Everyone participated and nearly every question was answered. It was amazing that in an hour and a half this group of strangers became friends with each having authentic stories to tell about their lives. It was more enjoyable than I even anticipated. Of course, different facilitators suggest different “games” so who knows what will come out of it if we attend again.
The second discussion is one that is held weekly here in Ajijic, MX by the Lake Chapala Society. Led by a person named John, the group attracts about fifteen men and women every week. Sitting around a long table, the topics covered are generated by attendees emailing them to John beforehand which he then sends to everyone before the meeting. The tag line for the group is: “Intelligent conversation with intelligent people about topics that concern us all.” We’ve gone to four of them and are impressed by how diverse and interesting the people who attend are, as well as the variety of topics we cover. While politics is usually not the subject at hand, it often pops in when discussing other issues and it is refreshing how respectful everyone is of differing points of view. This group has been one of the highlights of our time here in Ajijic.
We attended our last group yesterday afternoon. I had been hearing about the concept of Death Cafes for several years now and when I learned there was one here in Ajijic I asked Thom if he was interested as well. No, it has nothing to do with Halloween or advertising a mortuary—instead it is an organization that has been meeting in groups officially since 2011 to talk about dying. The premise behind the group is to provide safe and open spaces where people can talk about something that affects us all—sooner or later. Their actual mission statement is, “to increase awareness of death with a view to helping people make the most of their (finite) lives.”
The Death Café here in Ajijic is held at a local coffee shop once a month. While there is never a cost and all facilitators are volunteers, they do recommend drinking tea or coffee and eating snacks as a way to make the meeting relaxed and casual. First about 20 of us gathered to hear the ground rules like no cross talk, no advice unless solicited and just about any topic is acceptable. We then broke into smaller groups of four to six people to discuss everything from expectations, fears, legal matters, euthanasia, and anything related to the topic of death. There was laughter, sadness, some good insights and support.
One thing is for sure, talking about a serious subject like death strips away anything superficial and unimportant. There is no goal for these cafes other than the space to talk freely about dying. Gathering with others who are honest about their concerns and experiences is liberating for everyone in attendance. If we aren’t dealing with the subject yet—either in our families or with ourselves—there will be a time when these types of conversations could be the most important that any of us will have.
After a week of getting together with others for “authentic relating”, discussing “intelligent topics” and then meeting and talking about death you might be able to tell how gratifying the week has been for someone like me. That’s when I asked myself, “Why don’t I do it more often? And as it turns out, research shows that while most of us crave the sort of meaningful connections that come out of such encounters—we usually avoid them. Or we just end up chatting about things that don’t matter.
Why is that? According to the research done in 2021 by the APA (American Psychological Association)* people resist deep conversations with strangers for two reasons. 1) They are (wrongly) afraid that others aren’t that interested. And 2) we tend to overestimate awkwardness and fear vulnerability. But as this study reveals, when people did initiate deep conversation the listeners were far more satisfied with the encounter than with mere superficial topics. The study also showed that people were more interested in those willing to go deep and that it often triggered the same response in the listener. What it basically showed is that people want to have deeper and more meaningful conversations with each other but we are often too hesitant to start.
This last week helped to remind me that sometimes being a part of a local discussion group is a sure way to meet and connect with others that care equally about deep conversation. They are out there if we look with intention. Since we’ve been here in Ajijic for about a month now, we have met and connected with more people than we usually do back home. Perhaps because I love it so much, it might be SMART to seek out similar gatherings (or even start one of my own) so that conversations that matter can be more and more part of my life. How about you?
*https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2021/09/deep-conversations-strangers
Hi Kathy,
I love this topic! Authentically relating – isn’t that a nice concept? Glad you found so many like minded people in Ajijic. And, yes, it does take intentionally searching them out. I’m not sure what we have around our area however now I have incentive to look.
And, like you, I enjoy the deep and meaningful conversations. And sometimes you just want to be silly and have fun, and those are also needed when the mood strikes.
I have never heard of Death Cafes so it was very interesting to read about and see in the comments there are people who are death doulas. This topic is almost like it’s taboo and so many people avoid talking about even though we all have to deal with it eventually. These cafes and doulas would definitely make the “transition” easier it sounds like.
Trying something new is always a good thing and I’m so glad you and Thom do. It makes for very intriguing and thought provoking posts which I enjoy. Thanks so much!
Hi Debbie! Thanks for your ongoing encouragement–you KNOW it is appreciated. And glad you found this interesting. With you moving to Portugal it would be good for you to be able to find people to talk to and get together with on a regular basis. But from all our travels, nothing has beat this area (Ajijic in MX) for having so many options. Not sure exactly why–like I may or may not have mentioned, a local group “The Lake Chapala Society” was started back in the 50’s as both an educational and service oriented group aimed at expats. It has grown to be that and so much more and I really think that it manages to attract and keep so many people connected all the while doing good work for the community. Anyway, from our first visit here 5 years ago it has been one of the easiest places to meet new friends AND find ways to connect with deep conversation. I hope everyone has a “place” where they can do that. ~Kathy
Yes, I also like challenging and authentic groups. I am coordinating a book study but an authentic group sounds good also.
This is right up my alley. As the years have gone by, I’m less and less interested in big social gatherings where the conversation stays light. I’m not judging that and it can be quite enjoyable, but for me, I’ve come to prefer having tea with a old friend or new acquaintance and sharing what is meaningful about our lives with each other.
One way I experience this is a bigger group is through my No Way Cafe contemplation group that meets twice a month. We used to meet at my house, but when Covid hit, we switched to Zoom, which allowed remote members to join. Because of this we have stayed on Zoom, which is not the same as in person, but allows us to maintain a community with others we care about who are not local. Our meetings are very personal and reflective, and create a safe environment to share whatever we want to.
So pleased to hear about your participation in Death Cafes. A friend of mine facilitates the Death Cafes here in Portland, so I’ve known about them for awhile, although I’ve never participated in one. My experience with cancer this year has given me the opportunity to bring the topic of death front and center with family, friends, and health providers. It’s a relief to have this topic normalized as a natural part of life.
Thank you for another conversation and thought provoking post.
Hi Galen! You popped in my mind this morning when I got up so there was no surprise to see an email from you AND this comment. I love it when that happens. I switched spam catchers a couple of weeks ago and am hoping that helps with “disappearing comments.” You were just being held in my “check in” box!
And I am also not surprised to find that you have created a community of others to share deep conversation. I know of a few others on Zoom that meet and actually was a part of one for a couple of years during Zoom but I think the extroverted part of me NEEDS to be with people in person to fully appreciate the experience so that is where my intentions lie right now. Of course, not all of us are alike so whatever works for someone is a good thing.
And now having participated I highly encourage others to see if a Death Cafe exists near where they are (especially if a person longs for meaningful conversation!). It’s surprising how many of them are scattered around so just going to their website should point one in the right direction. And I repeat, they aren’t morbid or overly sad. Of course they are talking about a subject that is deeply personal but that can/should happen in ANY deep conversation right? As you say, “normalizing” the topic is so healthy and freeing. Good for you for talking it out with your family and close friends. I think we would all benefit from more discussion around the topic.
Thank YOU (as always) for your words of wisdom. ~Kathy
I know what you mean about preferring in person conversation. I do too. The No Way Cafe group went to Zoom initially because of Covid, but by the time restrictions eased, we had some very valued remote members, and so we stayed on Zoom to continue to include them. It was a fair trade — excluding them by returning to in person would have been a big loss. But nothing beats sitting in the backyard or at the table with a pot of tea and a good friend for conversation.
I’ve never thought about intentionally looking for this type of substantive conversation. Never heard of Death Cafe, either. So thanks for making me aware of this type of opportunity out there.
My book clubs often get into these deep conversations. It’s why I’ve stayed with the 2 I’m in and dropped the third, which never really got into any meaningful talk. I have one or two friends who I can have these deeper talks with, but sometimes our chats still end up superficial – who’s doing what. Like you, substantive conversations energize me. So I might need to be more intentional in creating the opportunities.
Hi Pat! I guess because they are so rewarding to me that I do seek them out but I understand if you already have a group or two that it isn’t a priority. But hey, can’t we all use new friends. And I’m also interested in all the “conversation” around reaching across the aisle to talk to people different than us to get a better understanding of what is happening around us. It’s really interesting to me to take the time to hear perspectives from people really different from us–it’s so easy these days to just live in our bubble.
Of course with that said, there are times when just sitting around chatting with friends about silly things is exactly what I need too. I think it is a mixture that I crave most. ~Kathy
Great topic, Kathy! I’ve always enjoyed the deep discussions we’ve had with you and Thom so I’m not surprised at all that you’ve found people where you are staying to have these types of conversations with.
I’ve attended several Death Cafes here locally and always enjoyed them. It was so interesting to hear different perspectives and they helped me better understand my own.
I’ve toyed with the idea of starting a small discussion group with a couple of retired female friends from my book club – topics like aging, finding purpose, time management, etc. After reading your post, I think I’ll make it happen.
Hi Janis! Yes, you and Paul know that Thom and I do LOVE our conversations! And how cool that you found a local Death Cafe to attend where you live. Their website does list where people can find them. And if you already know of a group of others that you think would enjoy the deeper conversations why not give it a try. According to the (limited) research I did on the subject, lots of us are looking for the same thing we just don’t take the chance. Good luck and let me know how it goes! ~Kathy
I’m having some success at finding compatible and conversational people at my retirement residence, so I’m on my way! It’s nice to receive your reply. Thanks!
Good for you Diane. If we are fortunate to live in a community that brings people together already–I’d say go for it! And as Thom and I like to remind each other, don’t forget “You Get To Make It Up!” ~Kathy
I’m excited by this post, Kathy. I started a circle group na year ago, and that’s what it’s basically about – deep discussion. We ahve worked our way thorugh one book and are about to embark on a journey through another one. I wanted to have an in-person goddess-related group. But, the universe didn’t see it that way, and it’s instead a Zoom group of women of mixed ages, discussing deep topics that we just don’t get anywhere else. We did have death discussion a few weeks ago.
And, Cindy recently got a certification as an End-of- Life Doula, sparking even more interesting perspectives on death. She’s currently designing a website that spells out some of the services she offers. It’s an interesting subject, and one our culture avoids. I think that’s why we don’t really know how to die! We know about leaving a will/trust, and arranging memorials.
Interesting topic. How cool that you found a discussion group there in Ajijic!
Hi Jamie! Good for you for doing your best to get a group going that will help you connect around topics that you care about. But I think one reason that the groups we’ve been a part of feel so good is that they are in person (not zoom!). I realize that zoom makes it easier, but after COVID I really, really want to connect with live humans!!! I want to see their entire bodies and feel that energy of being in the same place at the same time. And of course not everyone is a “match” but even that feels more life-giving to me. Does that make sense?
And congratulations to Cindy for becoming a Doula! There was one at our Death Cafe who served as one of the group leaders. You/she might want to look into Death Cafes as a way to create a group. They offer free guidance (on their website) for anyone who wants to start and maintain one. (all free!) I don’t believe there are any in our area so I’ll bet it would be well received. They have them here in Ajijic just once a month so we won’t be able to attend the next one before heading home. Still a great way to gather with others and talk about something that we will all experience! ~Kathy
Oh, how I wanted an in-person group!! Indeed, I resisted the idea of Zoom. But the young women who really wanted and needed the group were all at a distance, and unable to attend in person. At first I wasn’t going to even do it, but in a meditation, I heard I needed to “meet them where they are.”
Half of the women are 30-something women who are stuck at home, isolated, or in another state. They look forward to the circle, and sometimes even contact us in between circles for support. I resigned myself to the Zoom, and I’ve embraced it. But, I would still prefer in-person. There’s just an energy that’s missing on Zoom.
Hey Jamie! Good for you for offering something that others are finding so useful. And yes, sometimes putting the needs of others IS what needs to happen for sure. But now that things are settling for COVID, perhaps something more local would work??? Of course what we have come to understand, proximity is really important when it comes to most groups! ~Kathy
Hi Kathy, I think it is refreshing that you found so many ‘conversation’ groups in one area. It speaks well of the location you chose for your summer retreat. The closest experience I can share is an occasional book club discussion when we read a controversial or especially thought-provoking book. I enjoy when the ‘themes’ of a book require us to go deeper, and I especially enjoy moderating those types of book discussions. A good discussion leaves me feeling “full and satisfied”. ‘Authentic Relating’ sounds exactly like the sort of conversation group I would enjoy. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Suzanne. Yes one of the advantages of visiting a place like Ajijic and then staying here for a while you can really get a chance to feel a part of the community while you’re here. That’s a big reason why we come back here over and over. (that and the good late-summer weather of course!) But I’m guess that lots of other communities can offer the same if we look. As you say, many book clubs offer a chance to connect, but others are probably out there as well. We just have to value them and then seek them out. Or maybe, just maybe?? start one ourselves! ~Kathy
Very inspiring Kathy. I find that on Hornby island we have these deep conversations on the porch of the coop because we have time to do so. Or at the market on Saturday. Time is the biggest challenge. But your point about intention is worth bearing in mind.
Thanks Ann! I agree that some places are definitely set up for easy interaction and with other places we really have to seek them out. One advantage of a place like Ajijic offers is that most of us expats are retired and looking for connection–so things are set up that way. Having an organization that centralizes events helps too. Back home in the U.S. people seem to be so busy that we run around just trying to get more and more stuff done–who has time to talk! A good reminder to “slow down” and remember what really matters. ~Kathy
Your topic hit the mark with me, Kathy. For years, I’ve been part of a writing group in which we met to share our writing. We read our piece aloud to the group and had a discussion afterwards. The talking was often longer and more meaningful than the writing! I enjoyed it tremendously but stopped going when I moved a few miles away. Now, I’m thinking about how satisfying the meetings were, and how I should make an effort to go back. Thanks for giving me the incentive to do that!
Hi Diane! Thanks. I think there are dozens of different types of group that can provide the kind of conversations that most of us long for, but finding them isn’t always easy. If anything, I’ve learned that I need to make the effort more to seek them out and then keep searching if one doesn’t quite fit. I also need to remind myself that lots of us are looking for the same thing so don’t give up! ~Kathy